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Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by Radagast on 23 November 2000 @ 12:40 PM

The Grinch aka Chief US climate negotiator Frank Loy shortly before being hit by a cream and cherry pie in The Hague.

The US delegation has been widely blamed for the failure of the climate negotiationsheld in November in The Hague, Netherlands. Backed up by an "Umbrella Group" of weaker countriessuch as Japan, Canada, and Australia, the US delegation pushed aggressively to undermine the KyotoProtocol through loopholes like tree plantations, nuclear power and buying other country's emissions;anything except taking responsibility for its own pollution. The US, and the same gang of hangers-on,also played a negative role at the INC5 negotiatons on bio-poisons (persistent organic pollutants, or POPs)in early December in South Africa, although these negotiations had a happier ending.

It is no secret that actually implementing the climate and POPs treaties (instead of posturing about them)would mean eliminating large parts of the petrochemical industry. So it is no surprise to see large playersin this industry, like Exxon, Shell,BP, Dow and Dupont, either attacking and undermining the negotiations, running advertising campaigns pretendingto be manufacturing something other than the massively polluting products in question, or both. It is more surprisingto see some governments defending the interests of these unpopular and destructive corporations rather than theinterests of their own citizens.

Although no one can claim that most European and many developing countries areenvironmentally pure, there seems to be a sharp difference between the environmental positions of these countriesand those of the US bloc. What is going on here?

The Fine Print: Comments and articles posted on this website are owned by the person who posted them and do not necessarily represent the views of Greenpeace.
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by Anonymous on 23 November 2000 @ 03:09 PM
why arew they hosting it hear in south africa? probably one of the most polluted countries in the world- all i can hope is that some-one finally tells this country for once and for all to clean up its act - you worry about gm food- here thats a minor - i think some of our rivers glow at night!
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by DavidM_UK on 24 November 2000 @ 02:15 PM
When are the US going to wake up to the damage they are causing?
I was watching Newsnight last night and saw that the USA is accountable for a QUARTER of all the worlds pollution! And because they are utilising loopholes in the Kyoto Agreement their emissions have INCREASED by 1%. I personally find it disgusting that a country would rather make sure they have a healthy economy rather than a healthy planet! If they keep this up their country will be underwater soon anyway and the economy will be quite useless!

Keep up the good work Greenpeace!
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by cara loft on 25 November 2000 @ 01:50 PM
I read what you all say and i say that surely it can't be as bad as the situation in the UK. Tony Blair said he would clean Britain up but it is worse than ever. The streets are littered with plastic wrappers and such and the river and sea is so polluted no one will go anywhere near either. I live in a seaside town and I hear you say oh how pretty but it is not. I live almost 3 quaters of a mile away from the shore and the seagulls pester us and raid the bins becaudse there is no fish in our harbour anymore. If you walk along the beach you will see any number of dead birds and fish- that is if you can stand the smell of waste from our lavatories being pumped out into our harbour.
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by babykong on 25 November 2000 @ 09:21 PM
Culture.

It's not the negotiators
It's not the polititions
It's not the corporations

The problem is us, the people, our culture.

Power to the people in America means more SUV's, more powerplants, and the tearing up of the Alaskan wilderness to search for more oil.

Culture can be changed, but not by politics because culture controls politics, both national and corporate.

American culture can be changed and has been changed by non violent direct action.

Who we elect means very little

What we DO means everything.
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by Anonymous on 26 November 2000 @ 02:04 AM
Recently, George Dubya came to my college (college of DuPage) before the election. I was one of 2 environment protesters and questioning Bush supporters. Some of the things that came out of these peoples mouths astonished me. One guy tried to tell me that the vice president of greenpeace quit because they said the rainforest was unimportant (to my knowledge its not true!)another told me that the trees themselves are not important because its the decaying matter underneath them that gives off oxygen (rotting vegitation gives off nitrogen). America is truly uninformed, what a big surprise. I asked people about why they MUST drive SUV's and they tell me, "we need v8's, something your little solar powered cars won't give us". This is disgusting. I totally agree that America is spoiled. At least I got most of them to agree that America has too many people to support this lifestyle.
Keep trying everyone!
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by Desert Wolf on 27 November 2000 @ 06:08 AM
In America, our energy-hungery lifestyle is a big drain on our planet's resources, and threatens the long-term health and well being of all life on Earth. Our attitude about the consumption of energy keeps us in a self-centered state, separate from the rest of the world. Now that the USA is moving into its post-industrial phase, what will happen when the rest of the world attains the ability to consume energy the way Americans do? We drive our ego-boosting, gas-guzzling SUVs without a thought. But what are the consequences when the Chinese decide to trade their bicycles for V-8s?
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by Anonymous on 28 November 2000 @ 04:38 AM
You people are so dumb. Everyone keeps talking about SUV's and how polluting they are. While that is true, why don't you try having an intelligent, informed discussion about possible ways to change the situation. None of you seems incredible informed yourselves; you just repeat something that you hear from one of your greenie friends. Global warming is a serious problem, caused by many factors, one small factor of which is the number of SUV's driven in the US. You all understand the deleterious effects of carbon emissions but you really don't understand the earth system. Have any of you heard of the carbon cycle? Are you prepared to offer any alternatives to car drivers? The US is a large country and trucking is still a vital necessity to the American economy. Semis are horrible polluters. What about developing a high-speed rail system to take up the slack? Do any of you think about these kinds of things? Solar power cars are just not going to cut it at this time and with the current technology. Other sources of energy need to be pursued as well, along with research in the fossil fuels industry. My other problem with Greenpeace and other environmental organizations is the unwillingness to compromise. Obviosly, large reductions in emissions would help. But Americans are unwilling at this point to do much in that direction. Therefore, other ways of reducing atmospheric carbon are necessary, inluding tree planting programs, and yes, emissions trading as well. Trees are an exellent sink for carbon. Countries like the US need to be given benefits for planting more trees. This sets an example for other nations to follow suit. While not perfect, the Kyoto Accords are a landmark agreement. The only problem is that there is no way of enforcing it and the US, under GW Bush will probably not follow it. This is a shame of grand proportions. I agree strongly with many of the intentions of environmental organizations such as Greenpeace, but disagree strongly with their methods and details of position. I feel that the environmental community is way to radical to be accepted in the mainstream and therefore the arguments they bring up are cheapened and tossed aside.
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by Log-in on 30 November 2000 @ 10:10 PM
I have to say that as an Australian I am ashamed to hear that Australia was one of the main countries to help the US undermine the Kyoto protocol and push the loopholes to cheat their way out of acting for the climate.
Living here makes you think that Australia is not so bad when it comes to the environment but it seems our government does not care about what is going on in not only our own backyards, but also our neigbour's backyards. Don't govenments realise global warming is a worldwide issue which needs to be dealt with NOW! It seems like these meetings never achieve much, accept for creating a whole load of waffling lip service. Hats off to the Canadian activist who burnt his passport in protest to the outcome at the end of the negotiations.
Hostage to Corporations...
by Jeremy Mason on 01 December 2000 @ 08:16 PM
In the midst of all this post-Hague finger pointing blame game, one thing seems to me to have already come shining through all the political mess. That is the very real power behind the throne. Corporate America.

Whilst this is depressing in the extreme, it also could point to a way forward for the whole Climate Change scenario. As the effects of climate change become ever more evident (droughts, hurricanes, floods etc.), the costs that are incurred to property and industry are only going to increase.

This has got to get to a point where the costs to the insurance industry are going to increase astronomically. These costs are going to have to be passed on to the customer (domestic & business).

Surely the costs of insuring a business will gradually eat up more and more company money. It would only take a few businesses to go under, before even the most ardent slaves to the dollar sit up and take notice.

I don't believe we will have to wait very long for insurance increases to occur. In the UK the insurance industry have already warned of significant cost increases as a direct result of the recent flooding.

This is simply going to occur on an increasingly regular basis (as climate change effects deepen), cross international boundaries, and render lots of business uneconomic.

Maybe then the finger pointing will be done for us by the insurance industry, as they start to increase the charges for their most polluting clients.

Here's hoping!
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by Andy on 02 December 2000 @ 10:58 PM
Having lived through the latest defeat for the world in the Hague, it is disheartening to see the mainstream press coverage of the events here in France. The main stakes of the event ( saving the planet ) seem to have been forgotten or swept aside as the media concentrates on personal conflicts between the main players, as though the real decision making were in their hands. As usual, there was hardly any in depth analysis of the situation, this is typical of the mainstream medias. What seems important is that people are argueing and fighting not what they are argueing and fighting about. The emotional is primed over the intellectual and the man in the street is titillated but hardly persuaded to stay in the street and get a banner out.
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by Jerry on 03 December 2000 @ 10:23 AM
Hi fellow activists,Together with you I am following the latest news on Greenpeace actions. I strongly believe that we can make a difference with all our activities and especially with the attention we hope to receive in the media. I also believe that we must act global as well as lokal.That is why I am starting a campaign in Belgium to ban useless packing. The target, the magazine, called Access, is a promotional folder of a national bank and contains all sort of information for young people, like website reviews, party calenders, ...But now it comes: while the folder consists of only 8 pages, they found it necessary to wrap it in 1320 cm² of plastic. This means a wast of plastic of 220.000 copies X 1320 cm² = 290.400.000 cm² or 29.040 m² (31.759 square yards). And this every month of the year !You can help by writing a short message to the publisher : info@vulcan.bePlease mention the name of the magazine (Access).Thank you for making this a success. If you put my email address (geniel@pi.be) in BCC, I can keep you informed about the results. GreetzJerry
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by Anonymous on 09 December 2000 @ 07:37 PM
As a US citizen and activist environmentalist, I will be the first to agree that America has a large part in contributing to global warming. To that end I have been part of campaigns against Coca Cola and BP Amoco, to name two examples. However, as a superpower, I believe we have become a vast vauge target for criticism. We are an easy scapegoat. While we have contributed to the global problem, so have a host of other nations. No one is crying out against the equatorial countries for allowing the destruction of vast areas of virgin forest. No one is complaining that many third world countries heavily utilize coal and oil as sources for electric power, or fail to scrub the emmisions produced as a result. The list of contributors is endless. America is responsible for 20 to 25% of the problem, what is the rest of the world doing about the other 75% of the problem. America is responsible, but not responsible alone. The solution begins in American backyards, but that in itself is not a solution. It must begin in your backyard as well.
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by Miguel Sousa on 10 December 2000 @ 02:15 AM
The U.S.A. should be ashamed by being the greatest polluting country in the whole world. It´s deplorable that such a country prefers to be involved in pride subjects than in the future of this planet, after earths end, it won't exist such a paradise where life could appear
Re: Why Is The US Such A Grinch?
by @zero on 11 December 2000 @ 12:12 AM
Everybody is complaining about the actions of the United States, but nobody even tries to understand, what is actually going on. You must understand that there is more than simply the eco-system. There is something called politics. But first you should understand one thing: "People are not smart"Tough pollution is one of the most dangerous threats existing, it is one NOT noticable in everyday life. People are just to comfortable and blind and stupid to understand that. Only if WE manage to bring them these threads near their homes, they will actually really start being concerned about pollution.Who controlles Nations? -Government. Who controlles Governments? -Politicians. Who influences Politicians? -People. The only possible way to change the policies of America is not to contiue begging the politicians to try, but to raise mass-attention of the people. Only by performing wild,interresting, unconventional acts it is possible gain the mass-medias attention. Only with the mass-medias help it is possible to change the attitutes of the people. Only if it starts being from interrest of politicans to change their policies, we can have any progress."Therefore all progress concerning pollution-policies comes from keen action raising public interrest."
stupid US obsession with technology and freedom
by Anonymous on 16 March 2002 @ 01:30 AM
The US also believes in technological solutions to climate change, such as those more or less dangerous ones under discussion in this thread:

http://cybercentre.greenpeace.org//t/s/1016031953/1016140319/1016191541/1016205185/1016237635/posting_html

To summarize: spreading iron finely by aerosol or bacterial techniques could encourage plankton growth to the point where CO2 absorption is much increased, offsetting natural gas and oil and wood burning.

It would also make biological weapons much easier to spread since they could use the same techniques.

An entirely new protein, prion, virus or molecule could possibly inject, infect or supply existing cyanophytes with iron. But it too would be a potential ecological hazard.

Other techniques the U.S. considers, such as liquefying huge amounts of CO2 and effectively carbonating the oceans, tend generally to be quite obviously stupid. But Dubya gets a speech saying "we're doing something" out of each one, and another six months' delay on doing anything.

It's entirely possible that CO2 emissions will do to the US what radiation emissions from Chernobyl did to the USSR: discredit it and break it up!!!

Would that be bad?

The Fine Print: Comments and articles posted on this website are owned by the person who posted them and do not necessarily represent the views of Greenpeace.


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